Chin Injeti:
right? It taught me to listen. It taught me to really work for the song and not for my ego or my thoughts. It... really was a blessing, but the creativity, the school can't teach you that. you know, having a sense of self, like a musical identity school will never give you that. And a lot of people who... rely on that are the ones who aren't really excelling in that world that they want to excel in because they think that it makes them an authority. Sometimes your education can give you this ego that it's not constructive to the end goal, right? And sometimes learning on your own, not sometimes all the time, learning on your own is just, it's always going to teach you something. You're gonna write a bad song to get to a good song. You're gonna have a really shitty show to get to a great show You're gonna have bad reviews to get to the good reviews. So, you know, I think they were kind in hand

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, and I think that's part of the learning. That's part of the journey is to learn that. I think it's part of the journey of creativity to learn that when you're in the middle of writing a bad song and you know that you're writing a bad song, sometimes the answer is not stop writing that song. Sometimes

Chin Injeti:
Sometimes,

Sara Ramsay:
the answer is

Chin Injeti:
finish

Sara Ramsay:
keep

Chin Injeti:
it.

Sara Ramsay:
going and get it out so that it's out of the way and you're clearing the pipes for the good

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
stuff that comes later.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, but sometimes, yes, absolutely. Other times it's just like, okay, stop. It's time to stop.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chin Injeti:
Right? I don't

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
know if you can hear the music in the back. They're blasting the Indian music.

Sara Ramsay:
A little bit, a little

Chin Injeti:
Sorry

Sara Ramsay:
bit.

Chin Injeti:
about that.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, I agree with you that I think a lot of the formal music education is really most at play if you are going to be a teacher. Or if you're obviously, if you're going into classical music that's a different thing. But in

Chin Injeti:
Totally.

Sara Ramsay:
the world of pop and rock and like contemporary music I think it's one of the reasons I like to ask that question to guests, because

Chin Injeti:
Good question.

Sara Ramsay:
I think it sits in a different place in contemporary music. I think that formal music education can influence the way we write, because we know more, we have more at our disposal to choose from.

Chin Injeti:
Yes.

Sara Ramsay:
But I don't think that it is a career make or break. kind of thing.

Chin Injeti:
No, but I think the two could work so wonderfully hand in hand. Yeah. You just have to know when to bring one of them out.

Sara Ramsay:
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to talk about the relationships that have been important in your career? And just to be clear, I'm not so much asking you to, you know, drop names and stuff. You can answer it however you want. I'm talking more about what have been the important relationships that have fueled you to get you to where you are today.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, I think... I have to say my dad and my brother

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
are really important because they're so helpful. music gives them so much hope. My dad performed in all the community shows and plays and and whenever he came out the few times he did come out he'd be the biggest like he'd be cheering like crazy to the point where the audience was entertained by it. And he'd be I remember playing at Massey Hall and he was in the balcony just yelling chin bob chin bob it means baby boy chin bob and actually I actually put the spotlight on him and and And it was like, I was so happy I could give that moment to him. And then there's my brother. who still sees like till this day that just the absolute magic in music and the way it helps him in his practice and the way he's a professor, he's actually a doctor of rehab medicine and the way it helps him raise his children, like it's all, I've taken it on as well, right? Until this day like even when I'm in the business of what we do. I'm still hopeful about everything. And I've been through a lot of challenges and I've been cheated. I still get cheated, you know, but... I'm really happy that I haven't lost hope in this thing that we do. And that's from those two. And then I have other people, other mentors, like one of my biggest mentors. I would say my biggest mentor. And I know, I don't know if it's, I know it's probably not the cool answer, but, but I'm going to say it's my first publisher.

Sara Ramsay:
Yep.

Chin Injeti:
Um, his name is Michael McCarty. And he just taught me so much

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
about the mindset of creating the emotional, almost like secret code of writing

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
a good song. Not that it always works for me. I've never had anyone believe in me like the way he had. And,

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
you know, as small as my deal was at the time and as big as his commitment was at the time, taught me, this is what you deserve, Jin. This is what you deserve in a partnership, in a manager, in whoever you work with. If they don't give you that, then they're not giving you anything. You know? I've never had that from a manager,

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
ever, ever, ever. But I've had that from someone like that. Then on top of that, like, just writing. I've been so lucky. I've done this with legends. I've done this with the best of the best. And the best. I mean, that I think, and the best thing I've learned from these people, the one common denominator is humility.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
You know, they're always up for an idea. They never shut you down and they give you the courage

Sara Ramsay:
Yep.

Chin Injeti:
to go through with your ideas. And, and that really came in handy as a producer because your job is not to, um, magnify your voice. I'm saying magnify a lot, but magnify your voice is to make their dream and their vision and their voice some bigger, brighter and better. And the best way to do that is alleviate all insecurities and fears and create a safe space where they can be who they want to be or

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
who they're trying to be, you know?

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
So those are the kind of things I got. And then there's like people like, you know, my first bass teacher. piano teacher or people in the business that I've worked with who taught me everything from programming to synthesis to vocal arrangements. And because I'm a vocal teacher as well, well, I'm trained to be a vocal teacher. I'm not a vocal teacher. It helped me to bring out, you have to be compassionate in this thing. And then you got to know when that, you also have to know when to pull the, okay, now I'm the captain of the ship. So blah, blah,

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
blah,

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
right? So yeah, those are the kind of things I've gotten from mentors.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, I think that's all really important. And, and I'm just going to pull out a little piece that you said that, um, ties in with something you said in the last question I asked you as well. And you're talking about humility and, and that, and, and you talked about, like, cause I wrote it down when you said it, working for the song, not the ego. And

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
I think that that is a piece that isn't always clear when you're young in the industry. That you, like your best foot forward is when you are working to serve the song, not to serve yourself. And those are not always the same thing. And,

Chin Injeti:
No, they're not.

Sara Ramsay:
you

Chin Injeti:
No,

Sara Ramsay:
know,

Chin Injeti:
they're

Sara Ramsay:
I

Chin Injeti:
not.

Sara Ramsay:
even talk to students sometimes when, cause I have students who come in, who are songwriters as well. and they've, they're playing me something and it's something and it doesn't quite work in their voice. And so they're bringing it to their lesson because they want to work on it in their voice. And I'm, I've said, well, there's two ways we can approach this. We can work on this technical thing to get it good in your voice, or you can change the song a bit to make it easier in your voice,

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
or you can write the best song. whether or not it's for your voice. And that song might end up being a song that maybe you try to place with another artist or whatever, but what is your, um, you know, what, what's your What's your goal? Are you writing to write the best song or are you writing to write the best song for you? Because they're not always the same thing.

Chin Injeti:
No, they're not. They're not, and there's, that's where the ego comes in place, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And on their part, okay, for instance, I have those moments too with artists. Some of them are equipped to have

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
that discussion. Some of them just don't know a thing. And... Essentially you're hiring me from someone like me for my opinion and my set skill, right? Um When you when you don't listen to what I have to say My my taste my opinion There's a certain point when I don't want to have that battle Like if you don't want to listen to me and you've already paid me for it too,

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah,

Chin Injeti:
right?

Sara Ramsay:
yeah,

Chin Injeti:
Well,

Sara Ramsay:
yeah.

Chin Injeti:
you're not, A, you're not getting your money's worth if I have to be so cold about it, but B. You're just exercising your ego and... You don't know what I know. You haven't been where I've been. But I've done everything to go where you've been. I've come undone and I've humbled myself to go where you want to go. And at that point when I say, well, I want to add this little thing in that chorus because I know it needs it. In my heart of hearts, I know it needs it. You don't have a track record. Let's just say. You don't have a track record of success. I've do. I've made big records. You've never had that success, but it's a fine balance of following your intuition,

Sara Ramsay:
Yes?

Chin Injeti:
your instinct and listening to what somebody else has to say. And so I can only speak on part of, because this interview is about me, so I'll talk about what my place is in it. I'm just like at a certain point. I just don't have the fight anymore. Like I don't want to try to, unless I really believe in the song, then I'm going

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
to go for it. Right. And we'll be like, guys, please like listen to me. Give, I'll give you the examples I show you. Can we just try it? There's a lot of that. Right. But when you, if the collaborated, if the artist or the collaborator feels like your ideas aren't important enough to give your ideas a chance. then I just don't have that battle. And a part of me has detached from the song. Because it's like, it's a very intimate thing because. You're putting it all on the table, no matter what the

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
subject is. And it's intimate. It's intimate. It's like really like very, it's like you're raising a child. The

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
song is your baby, right? And a good parent always wants to do what's good for the baby. And a bad parent wants to do what's good for themselves. You know? So that's how I look at it. So it's a fun, all of it, all of it is just a fine balance. And I found myself

Sara Ramsay:
Super

Chin Injeti:
the

Sara Ramsay:
fine

Chin Injeti:
other,

Sara Ramsay:
balance.

Chin Injeti:
I found myself going through that the other day with someone. And I just like, yeah, hey, I even said, hey, you know, at the end of the day, it's your opinion. Because in my head, in my heart, I knew they weren't gonna listen to me anyways. And I always tend to be like, if I'm in a, not on this one project. I'm not gonna listen to you. They always choose everything. They always choose the thing that I create. But then they want to make it something that it wasn't meant to be.

Sara Ramsay:
Right.

Chin Injeti:
That's where I have to learn to release my ego, because it's a collaboration app, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
So it's a constant lesson to navigate through that. But at the same time, you have to have a bird's eye view as a producer. I view everything and know when it's their turn. And then you have to give yourself enough credit to say, that's my turn. It's a give and take, it's all about exchange.

Sara Ramsay:
Absolutely.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
And the flip side of that, like when I have students who are going into, you know, they're prepping to go in and record and they're recording with a producer that they're excited about recording with for the first time. And sometimes they see them as the project is progressing and they talk about that issue of give and take and, well, the producer wants us to do it this way and I don't really think. And I talk through that with them. curious to hear your take on this. The way I have always approached that with students is remember that you are working with the producer because like producer XYZ, whoever it is, because you love the work that they have done before. So you are a fan of their work and you are excited to be working with them. And this is your project. ultimately in the end. So my suggestion is try all the things that they want you to try and then you get to choose which hill you want to die on.

Chin Injeti:
Exactly.

Sara Ramsay:
You don't,

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
don't, don't be bossy about it being your way for everything but it is okay if there are one or two things that you feel really strongly about. It's

Chin Injeti:
Yes.

Sara Ramsay:
also okay to voice that.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, that's the exchange you're talking about, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And there's so many unsaid rules in it, because there's this other thing happens. I was collaborating with another producer on a project, and all they do is tell the artist what they want to hear. It just makes me sick.

Sara Ramsay:
Mmm.

Chin Injeti:
Like it made me sick to my stomach.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah,

Chin Injeti:
It's

Sara Ramsay:
yeah,

Chin Injeti:
just

Sara Ramsay:
yeah.

Chin Injeti:
like, it's just like, it's just this tactic some people use to keep the gig. to keep the money coming to

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
make sure they keep working. And like, my heart doesn't work that way. And that's probably why I'm not, you know, super duper producer on the charts all the time. And

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
everybody wants to work with me is because. I always tell you my opinion. Even if it's to my detriment, I'll tell you my opinion of what I think of what we did to the song. That's not like I pull it out and I'm miserable all the time. It's just that when I have to be honest, I'm just honest. And if they disagree, that's okay. And if they ever don't work with me because of my opinion, that's okay also. You know, I'm not for everybody and not everybody's for me.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
But the people I work with keep coming back. I've stretched them to places they've never been and they've done the same thing with me and we've had an ongoing relationship. And I think that's important to have,

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
you know? Some of

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
the greatest records are made by a team over years and years of growing together, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about the transition from being in the performer's seat to being on the writing and production end of things?

Chin Injeti:
Sure. When my group broke up, I moved here. And when I moved here to Vancouver, I was trying to figure out, what do I want to do? I still signed at Universal. Nobody else was. They kept me and dropped everyone else. And I'm like, what do I want to do? Well, one thing I knew, and I'm proud of myself for knowing this earlier, I knew that I didn't want to make a record for that company, which was Universal. I just didn't want to make a record for them at the time. They don't understand who I am and what I want to do. And at that time, you know, black music wasn't a big thing. And the version of black music that I was a part, you know, I'm an Indian, South Indian man who's totally dedicated myself to black music culture. You know, you know, I grew up here. This is what I know. But I had my own take on it because I'm an Indian man. And they they weren't ready for that back then. And. But I was signed to them, they wanted me to put records out for them. But I didn't, I didn't, I didn't give them anything I was working on. And till, till, you know, I thought they were, I thought it was time. And by that time I was independent and I could do for myself, you know?

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
So that, that, that's when I decided to. become or have my try at this production thing, because I wanted to do things the way I heard. So to do that, I have to go and learn how to craft those sounds and songs. And then I had this great publisher who was teaching me about the value of good songwriting. So the two came together. And then I said, hey, I think I want to try this for other people, with

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
other people, for other people.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And it just really was like really. effortless kind of transition. And then I was able to use the performer side of things to help me like, you know, to coach vocalists and guitar parts and bass parts and drum parts. You know, the playing, being a band leader taught me how to produce records as well.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So they both, you know, they both help each other. And for me, the transition was smooth. Maybe at times a little worrisome because I was young and I'm like, how am I gonna make money?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. And, you know, I think for musicians, the US is often seen as that sort of holy grail, mostly because it's just a way bigger market and potentially

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
a way bigger payoff. And so it follows that the US has given us some of these megastars that you've worked with, Pink, Eminem, etc.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
Canada has created Um, a handful as well. Drake is Canadian. Um, but I think that that enormous success is often viewed through the lens of the U S market. Do you want to talk about making the leap from being, you know, a Canadian guy to working with a lot of either in the U S or with a lot of U S artists?

Chin Injeti:
I think that. landscape has changed a lot.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
It just, I mean, it's still the same in the way that if you have a record in the stage, it's going to be big everywhere. That's a given, right? But now because of the Drakes and the Weekends and whoever else follows,

Sara Ramsay:
Right.

Chin Injeti:
it's changed things. And thank God for them because they're really held on to what we're talking about. They're instinct.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And especially Drake, that camp, and he knew it was important to rep your city and your country. It was important to tell the world you're from Toronto, because when you have your, well, at least a city like Toronto, and I'll get to that in a second, when you hold it, carry a city on your back, it's going to carry you. It might take a while, but once they got you, they got you, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
That's something. that every Toronto artist that breaks out feels, right? But they feel it from the inception, right? So you always see those things on YouTube. Oh, they just played the Mod Club and everybody's singing the song and the artist is, you know, holy shit, you can't believe they're singing his song. Or you see, you've seen that thing so many times, right? You don't see that here. You know, you have to, here being Vancouver, you have to... You have to really engage your community and your community has to take ownership of who you are as an artist and want to share that with the world. Toronto artists have really, myself included, have really benefited from that. We've enjoyed that and it made us proud of where we're from and who we are. Like even until this day in Toronto, there's legends in different parts of that city that Vancouverites will never hear about or the rest of the world will never hear about. But there are heroes, there are people, you know? I find that happens more in big cities because we need each other more. You know, it's this cultural amalgam

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
of people and we need each other to get by. It doesn't seem to be the case here. I've never seen this feeling of, we're gonna stand behind this artist and make them big or. or tell the world about them or own them, right? The industry did that. Or if they go to Toronto, they become bigger.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
It never happens from here. I don't know what it is. I thought, I think I used to always blame it on geography and I don't know. I don't know. I think it's a mindset. Sometimes I think it just has to grow bigger to. So artists can enjoy that.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And I hope that happens. And maybe it's happening now, I don't know, but I don't feel it. But when I go back to Toronto, I see it constantly happening.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, I think there's a difference.

Chin Injeti:
And that, and sorry, to finish the, and

Sara Ramsay:
Ya go.

Chin Injeti:
I'm so sorry, to just to finish my answer to that question is like, yes, it's important to be successful in the stage. And there's a prestige that comes with it. But now the mindset's a little different because if you are big in your hometown, we're just like, everything else is extra, you know? And I think some people from bigger cities are feeling that,

Sara Ramsay:
Huh.

Chin Injeti:
you know, and I can't wait. for this city to feel that and other cities to feel that. You know,

Sara Ramsay:
Hmm.

Chin Injeti:
that you'll feel like, if you go to the States right now and you go tell people, if you tell people you're from Toronto, I mean, they look at you different. It wasn't like that in the nineties, ah, you're just from Toronto, right? But now it's kind of like, it's different. In fact, it's so funny. When I first came to Vancouver, I used to speak the slang and just the intonation in my voice. It's very like I'm an East Coast kid. Like I, you know, Toronto's so influenced by New York at the time. So we used a lot of that slang and just the way we spoke our vernacular was different and people here used to make fun of me all the time for it.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm.

Chin Injeti:
um in a friendly way but now I mean kids from Vernon are speaking like

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
they're from Scarborough and it's hilarious right you know like it's just like the culture of that city is it's everywhere and the reason it's everywhere is because everyone takes pride in it

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
the people from there takes pride in it and for me Vancouver there's so much to take pride in and we just we just don't wear it in a bigger way.

Sara Ramsay:
I think Vancouver's a difficult city. There's not the same sense of. There's not the same sense of community in Vancouver that I

Chin Injeti:
No.

Sara Ramsay:
think you experience in some other cities that I

Chin Injeti:
I think

Sara Ramsay:
think

Chin Injeti:
you're right.

Sara Ramsay:
is a really important piece of that puzzle that you're talking about around a city sort of claiming ownership of an artist. It's hard to do that if there's no sense of community to start with.

Chin Injeti:
Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And the bodies that are here to encourage that. I don't know if they're encouraging it. I don't know. Giving money to people is a good thing.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
Creating ventures to... put people together is a great thing. To focus on mental health is a great thing. But is anyone actually talking about, look, you need to show up. You need to be present. We need, like, is there that feeling of we need you to make sure that this person could be heard all over the world? Because you're that important to

Sara Ramsay:
Hmm

Chin Injeti:
what's happening. That's what happens back home.

Sara Ramsay:
I think Vancouver is a weirdly insular city. It's...

Chin Injeti:
Also weirdly insecure city.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And it's not a, and I'm not banging on Vancouver. Like obviously

Sara Ramsay:
No, no.

Chin Injeti:
it's my home and I live here.

Sara Ramsay:
I'm born and bred. I mean, it's my city too, but there's

Chin Injeti:
Yeah,

Sara Ramsay:
some stuff here.

Chin Injeti:
yeah, there's some stuff here. You're right. You know, I mean, you and I come, or maybe you don't, I don't know, but you know, when I came here, I came here, oh yeah, yeah, there's a Universal Music here. Yeah, I can still do business. Oh yeah, there's a Sony, there's a Warner, there's a everyone, nobody, nobody here. Spotify could have had offices here easily, but they don't because there's no reason for them to. I know that for a fact.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, yeah.

Chin Injeti:
I've heard that from people on Spotify. You know, there's no, you know, a platform like that and many platforms like that thrive because of community, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
Nobody shows up for anything here. Everything's always like a after hour show, an independent show, a house show. Everything's like a private club. You know, we should have at least six, seven local bands or 10, 20 local bands that can sell out the Commodore. We should.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
The only independent band that I know that could do that to my knowledge, indie band, without any management, without any record company, without any publicity are the Boom Booms from East Band. And that's based solely on community. Because they're like. They represent their community. They

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
love their community. They love,

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
they're so proud of East Van, not just in words, but in action. Toronto's full of those.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
That's what I'm saying. We need more of those here. Like, you know, here, like you'll see something like, I'll stop after this because I don't want people to think I don't love this city, but I'm hoping what I'm saying actually helps.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And if somebody wants to tell me I'm totally wrong, they can reach out and tell me. But, and teach me, because I want to learn, but it's like this. I'm still putting up music on all the platforms, right? I do it for different reasons. I have no aspirations of being a pop star, you know? I just want to put music up because I'm a creator. But

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
for people who do want that other thing. It's like they give up after one song

Sara Ramsay:
Mmm.

Chin Injeti:
or if that song like doesn't hit this amount of streams in this amount of time, they just kind of give up on the song and they move to the next song and they're wasting so much money and not building community doing that. What we should be doing is, hey, I have this song and then you should share it with your friends. It doesn't you don't necessarily have to share it with your music community. You can share it with friends and family.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
Share it. And say, can you spread this around? And then go to the music community, do the same. And it can be a couple of months. Let it keep happening. And things grow over time if they really are special and real.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
You can pay for numbers. You can pay to

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
be in articles and all this, whatever. But you can't pay for real support.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And you have to. encourage people like sometimes putting music out turns artists into beggars right.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
You don't always have to be a beggar you can do it with dignity and and ask your community to support you because community works both ways right.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So it's okay for you to ask and then it's okay for you to show up for people as well and I think if more and more people did that here we would see more touring we'd see more numbers we'd see more gigs being sold out we would we would see a reciprocating thing have energy

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
happening

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
right

Sara Ramsay:
And

Chin Injeti:
and

Sara Ramsay:
I don't know if that comes from, like, there's not a lot of great venues in Vancouver anymore for original live music. There's fewer than

Chin Injeti:
I

Sara Ramsay:
they

Chin Injeti:
don't...

Sara Ramsay:
used to be anyway. But I don't know if that's because they weren't getting filled because the community wasn't there to support it or like chicken and the egg, you know.

Chin Injeti:
I don't think it has anything to do with the venues. You know what I think it has to do with? It has to do with culture.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
The culture on social media is to put a shine on yourself. So you take the selfie, you talk about yourself, you talk about whatever you're doing, how big or small. You don't really spend time. talk about other people. Look how great they are. You know, but you have to only do it if you believe it. See, that's the thing,

Sara Ramsay:
Truth.

Chin Injeti:
right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And I don't know how many people actually believe that other people are great. Is that just like a thing that you say or that thing that you show up for, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
I see it in my community all the time. You know, there's sometimes something really gets really big and you can't help but support it because you have to. And I've been blessed to be part of those. project at least 12 times in my life. Like really huge things that like just, it just caught on and whether people like it or not, it's just dope. And they're just gonna support it. But then there's other things that sometimes you just need to give some things a chance. And then as the artist, you have to keep going at it. Like a great example is my friend and now everybody's friend, Luca, Luca Fogali. I remember I was one of the first people that ever saw him. And he's changed quite a bit, but he kept at it. He kept at it and now he's filling these huge rooms and tour all over the world. And there's a lot of examples like that, but I don't know how many bands, like he never took the cheap way out. Never cheapen what he did. He was so great and his whole lexicon is like full of gratitude and it's really authentic and he sounds great. And there's people that like that imagine, right? So I think. The thing is not giving up. Because if you don't, then which ties in back to that other question you were saying, it really ties into the whole thing. It's like, if you're a city in your country, but let's just talk about the city, and even smaller, your community believes in what you're doing, that shit just spreads like wildfire. And next thing you know, you have a record in the States that's doing well.

Sara Ramsay:
Yep.

Chin Injeti:
Right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yep.

Chin Injeti:
So.

Sara Ramsay:
Some producers get involved with songwriting and some don't. Do those things cross over for you or stay pretty separate?

Chin Injeti:
I'm a composer and I'm a multi instrumentalist. So inevitably it crosses over, but I don't go into it saying like, Oh, I got to get publishing on this song on this record. I want to go there to facilitate people's ideas. That's all. And if it happens that I'm writing and I'm writing and sometimes it's like, it's skewed, right? It's hard to say what you call writing, but yeah, but my intention isn't. to get writing on every song. I just want to help make a nice record.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. And in your career these days, the writing that you do, do you do a lot of like co-writing or solo writing or what does that look like for you these days?

Chin Injeti:
No, I never actually do solo writing for an artist. Like I don't sit at home and write a song for an artist. I did once, I did once and they used it, but they changed two, three, fourth words. I guess they felt they needed to, you know? I didn't know if it warranted that, like the song. I don't know if the song needed that or not. Again, it's a fine line, right? So I try it, I actually don't even try to write for people on my own. I like the collaboration and I don't want to set myself up for disappointment.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. And the writing that you, like you said, because you still release music currently.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
Is that Steph Solo, right?

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
Solo, I don't even know how to conjugate that verb.

Chin Injeti:
It's,

Sara Ramsay:
You know

Chin Injeti:
I know

Sara Ramsay:
what I

Chin Injeti:
what

Sara Ramsay:
mean

Chin Injeti:
you

Sara Ramsay:
though.

Chin Injeti:
mean, but it's both. It's both. It's sometimes

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
a good chunk of it is just, I wrote it because I felt something. And then a good chunk of it's collaboration. Cause there's that brilliant. Those people are

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
that brilliant. Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Um, can you tell us a little bit about your songwriting process?

Chin Injeti:
Yeah. It takes some, in the very beginning, it takes some isolation. And I just have to like. like get back to myself, you know, and really think about who I wanna be and what I wanna sound like and what am I feeling.

Sara Ramsay:
Hmm?

Chin Injeti:
And then after that, like, and that's mostly like mental and just a lot of listening and spending time alone. And then after that, it's just like. playing instruments, making sounds. Sometimes they come out of mistakes by myself again. And then I do that same thing with other people. And then it grows. I don't know sometimes, I don't know what comes first, the horse or the carriage. Sometimes like

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
two words. ["The Horse or the Carrot"] can start it off sometimes just a feeling in the air, something you saw in a movie, a phrase you read in a book, or your kids might say something. Yeah, most of it used to be just like instrumental, but now it's very like life is kind of a big part of it. And then for me, I think it's way better when it's collaborative.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So basically no real formula.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, well, and that's... I just think it's fascinating to have a little bit of a window into people's creative processes, you know,

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
and the fact that for some people, a really formulaic approach works really well for them because they get great,

Chin Injeti:
Yes.

Sara Ramsay:
um, output at the other end of it. And for some people that has to have nothing to do with it. And it has to be more along the lines of what you're talking about, about just like getting settled with themselves and getting in touch and then. whatever comes out comes out and and everything in between.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, I feel so bad for the artists that don't understand what true collaboration is about.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm.

Chin Injeti:
Because the two... either scared or selfish or insecure. I don't know, whatever it is, my hope for every artist is to open their hearts, to get to that place, you know? It really helps the songwriting process.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, well I think true collaboration is incredibly vulnerable.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, I think you're right.

Sara Ramsay:
And not everybody has the capacity for that.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, like for me, the biggest thing that I'm working on,

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
my life's work now is like to try to learn to write a good story, a good lyric.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
It's so important to me and I'm not very gifted in that area.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And I wonder, I don't know why, I don't know why I'm not. I think a lot of it has to do with being vulnerable. ["The Last Supper"]

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
You know, but that's something I'm working on. And I find collaborating helps me with that.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
Whenever I do collaborations, I'd like to do it with people who are lyricists and melody people

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
more than like another producer. Because

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
I think the song, the words and the melody are the most important thing. You can figure out the other stuff later.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, well, and I think the concept of storytelling in music, and actually in all aspects of music, whether we're talking about the writing or the performance or the producing or the orchestration or the like any and all of that, I think the concept of storytelling is a really important one. It's one that I talk to students about all the time because I think that is the vehicle by which we connect to our audience.

Chin Injeti:
Absolutely.

Sara Ramsay:
And so that that word might mean different thing in different contexts, but it's still it's we are storytellers. As creative people, whatever the creative medium is, at its heart, we are storytellers.

Chin Injeti:
Yes, and as much as I love pressing the buttons and playing everything, and it looks really cool in my posts and when I'm in a big studio and blah blah blah, I wish I could just... I wish I had enough value as a songwriter that I could just walk into a room with a piece of paper and a pen and a guitar, you know? Or maybe I can, I don't know. But I wonder, I would love to be able to just to write. I just admire

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
writers so much. I wish my pen was so strong, like, I want to be so strong that people want that from me, you know?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, I understand that.

Chin Injeti:
And it's such an honorable job, it's such an admirable job, and I don't think enough people give that the adoration it needs, you know?

Sara Ramsay:
For what it's worth, I still think that when you're the guy sitting there pushing buttons and making decisions about how the pieces fit together, I still think that your job is to be a storyteller.

Chin Injeti:
Oh, absolutely.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, you're

Chin Injeti:
It's worth

Sara Ramsay:
using

Chin Injeti:
a lot.

Sara Ramsay:
different tools to do it,

Chin Injeti:
Totally.

Sara Ramsay:
but...

Chin Injeti:
Absolutely. Oh yeah. A very profound statement. It's like Quincy Jones, right?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
When people think of Quincy, they think of, obviously the Michael Jackson record, but no one's thinking, a lot of people aren't thinking about the jazz records and the movie scores and the, you know, just. the commercials and the other artists, right? And he always knew, he never touched any buttons unless he was playing for himself, but he always knew, and probably knows, like he just knows that Greg Philly Gaines is great for that keyboard part and Eddie Van Halen is great for that solo. And what if we got Vincent Price to do that narrative part and you know, it's amazing, amazing how that happens and how his whole team have made. happens that way, you know? And I find great producers know how to put the right people together,

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
you know?

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
And I'm still working on that. I'm still working on that as well, because, you know, a lot of the times I can play mostly everything. And sometimes I just like the way I make the pocket happen, because I hear the pocket. But then other times, it's so necessary to have somebody else play. I'm a bass player, but sometimes it's necessary to have blah, blah, blah, play the bass, because his voice is different than mine, you know. And it tells a better story, so you're right, you know.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's all about serving the song, right?

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah, everyone's routine in the studio looks different. Do you want to talk a little bit about your studio process leading up to being in, making a record with an artist, any of the bits and pieces of that that feel relevant?

Chin Injeti:
like you mean my creative process?

Sara Ramsay:
If you are going to work with an artist as a producer.

Chin Injeti:
Okay.

Sara Ramsay:
So remember that we're talking to folks who maybe haven't had that experience yet and don't really

Chin Injeti:
Uh

Sara Ramsay:
even

Chin Injeti:
oh.

Sara Ramsay:
know what to expect out of that experience. So

Chin Injeti:
Okay,

Sara Ramsay:
if

Chin Injeti:
so

Sara Ramsay:
you're

Chin Injeti:
the.

Sara Ramsay:
working with an artist as a producer, what does that look like pre-production in the studio? Oh, you know, start

Chin Injeti:
I

Sara Ramsay:
to

Chin Injeti:
think

Sara Ramsay:
finish.

Chin Injeti:
it all starts with listening. I think the best form of pre-production is to actually listen. And don't listen to your voice, listen to theirs. If the artist sends you a song, their songs, listen to them. And then after that, go to that wormhole of things that they love and influences and go check it out. Because if you truly, and also like work with things that you like. Don't just

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
do things. for work, right? Sorry about that, one second.

Sara Ramsay:
It's alright.

Chin Injeti:
Nobody calls me but Spam.

Sara Ramsay:
Hehehe

Chin Injeti:
I think it's just important to listen to, because that way when you engage with the artist, then you'll know what they're looking for. And to exercise that listening muscle, like I can tell you how important it is for producers to listen and how many people don't. They just press their buttons and they're like, oh, I'm this guy, so I'll make it, right? But how important it is to really listen and then maybe... create something at home. I usually do it at the kitchen table, right? I just plug my thing into the interface and I make something that they might like and then I make a folder of a bunch of things that I think they might like, right? And then when they come to me, we'll talk. If they have an idea, we'll just go with it. I won't even bring the folder out. We'll just work on the thing that they made because it's all helping the process, me making something that was a great physical exercise, but then also have something already in the folder ready to go. So then after that, I'll show them a folder. and I'll give them like, I might have 10 ideas, but I'll just show them three. And they'll be like, oh my God, I love these. And then next thing I know, they're using the idea, right? And also the fact that I made it from a good place. I made it from like a real intentional place. So that's my process. That's what worked for me.

Sara Ramsay:
You've collaborated with a lot of artists over the years.

Chin Injeti:
Yeah, I'll do.

Sara Ramsay:
And, you know, we talked about the sense of community in the city of Vancouver

Chin Injeti:
for food.

Sara Ramsay:
and all of those pieces up for consideration,

Chin Injeti:
Okay.

Sara Ramsay:
working from a place of community and mutual respect and support rather than competition. So I think... A lot of people see the music industry as a very competitive industry. And in some ways it really is. But in some ways, I mean, most of the guests that I have on here also talk about what a collaborative community, like these are their people, there's such a community and it's a collaborative process rather than a competitive process. So do you want to talk a little bit about what your experience has been from that perspective and how

Chin Injeti:
Yeah.

Sara Ramsay:
we can continue to foster a more supportive community?

Chin Injeti:
Well, I think it's there already. Like, I think when people get into the studio, it's always a collaborative process. It's never feels like competition.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
I've never experienced that.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So I think it's not the artists that are making it competitive. I think that happens after. And I think the way to keep that going is to keep collaborating, keep making these writing camps, keep having like, I don't know, like things like what we're doing, having conversations. Keep having conversations, talk about it, feel it out, and you don't need Music BC to have a writing camp. You don't need SoCan to have a writing camp. You can go and get people together. I've done it so many times, right? And then the plus is doing it with them. So yeah, I would say you just physically do it. It also, like I'm working with a group right now called Days Are May. And. They've really like... up the level of collaborative efforts, right? And I'm saying this because there's three of them, they're all laptop geniuses. Like

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
they can all make amazing music on the laptops, but they can also make amazing music on their instruments. So as a producer, I let them do the button pressing. I'm not insecure about it. As a producer, I let them come up with some great ideas and then I tell them, it's too much over here, it's a little over there and... blah, blah, blah, and I do that thing that I'm doing, right? And what I'm doing is exercising this muscle, the listening muscle. And that is everything, just listening, listening, listening, and then doing it more. And I'm encouraging them to do it with other people as well, right? Because it'll make for a great record.

Sara Ramsay:
Hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And I just took, in fact, we just, I just took him to Toronto and we did a huge, well, for us it was huge, we did a writing trip. and I put them together with one, two, three, four, at least five different people, six different people.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
And some of them are like up and coming, some of them are like legends, some of them are just like very relative, but they learn something from everyone. And I think we gotta do that a lot more here.

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
A lot to pull from here. ["The Last Supper"]

Sara Ramsay:
What do you think creates a career with longevity in this business?

Chin Injeti:
Good songs.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah?

Chin Injeti:
I'm half kidding. I think just a good team, good team,

Sara Ramsay:
Mm-hmm.

Chin Injeti:
a good, good manager, which I'm still. I haven't enjoyed that yet. You know, I've had managers that have done great things, but I don't think I have a good management experience in a whole, right? It's a hard job. It's a hard

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
job. It's a thankless

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
job. It's a nameless job sometimes, but you've got to find someone who's up for all of it, right? So that and having a good business team and then some of... Parts of it has to do with the stars aligning because getting that song isn't the problem. You can get it and getting the success like getting the getting it out there and getting the notoriety, it can happen if you do all the right things. But getting there isn't the challenge, it's staying there. Staying there is great because getting there is so relative now because you could be a success if you have like 5,000 streams, but 5,000 real fans.

Sara Ramsay:
Right.

Chin Injeti:
That's very successful. That's a great career, right? I mean, I did a record once and I think it sold 12,000 copies. I probably did better than most signed artists that were out there.

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
You know what I'm saying? So, you know

Sara Ramsay:
Yeah.

Chin Injeti:
what I'm saying? So,

Sara Ramsay:
It's about

Chin Injeti:
the...

Sara Ramsay:
having the engagement of your community, not just the, yeah.

Chin Injeti:
So, it's important to have a team that understands that because once you get big, that's a lot more to manage. So you have to have someone that's up for it. You know, you have to have a team, a part of that team has to be like a content team. It literally takes an entire team to do this. because the content team is your marketing team, right? And having the right agent, like at all, it takes a bunch of things, but the things that are within your power is to align yourself with people that think like you, like-minded people, and that's gonna get you to where you want and keep you there.

Sara Ramsay:
Is there anything that you see often missed or misunderstood by up and coming folks in the industry, artists, producers,

Chin Injeti:
Yeah,

Sara Ramsay:
what have you?

Chin Injeti:
yeah, they think it comes up overnight. And then the other thing is they don't know the business of music. They don't know what publishing is. They don't know what a point system is. They don't know what a producer's job is. They don't know what a production point is. Um, I recently went through something where I work with an artist for years and, uh, literally, um, Literally like a while, a short while ago, um, the record, they signed with the record company and the record company was so excited because they said, uh, Oh, we're going to release that record that you did with them. I go, Oh, great. Uh, we need to do a production point for contract with you. So we get the right points. And I'm like, okay, but you know, you know, I own the masters for the record. And then they're like, Oh boy. And they're like the artists that he did. The artists said they own the record. I'm like, no, they don't. I don't know what they said and how they said it, but they don't. So I'm going through that right now. So I think going into it, artists have to know, and there's no shame in not knowing. There's no shame in not knowing. I have no, and I'm one of those people who have no shame. I'll tell you so many things that I don't know, because I want to know.